Then why do any players ever run from a fight? Why do people spend all day playing docking games rather than just losing their ships? Why do warp stabs, nullfied ships and cloaks even exist? Why don't people fill ships with plex and fly headlong into war targets scream "YAY CONTENT".

People are all fine with running and hiding until it's their enemy doing it, then suddenly it's bad form.

Yep, pretty much agreed, that's EVE. Why is it suddenly a problem now goons are doing it?

This is what happens when only one side has to play by the game mechanics and the other is free to use a third party application instead.

But that's not "playing the meta game". That's like saying hitting the server with A DDOS is metagaming, it's ridiculous. It's just cheating, plain and simple. And IWI beat everyone. How can you move on knowing that one group of players have free reign to pick and choose who else gets to play because they use third party software to give them an uncounterable edge. I know you're too blinded by bias to get it, but consider that what they are doing is only good for you because it's goons they are hitting. They could very well do the same to any alliance and there'd equally be no way to stop them.

No, we're not, we're back to you saying it's fine that someone can earn trillions of isk with a third party program which they would not be able to earn without it.

Sure, but then it wouldn't exist if bots were able to run rampant either because they give an unfair advantage to the user

Because it's impossible for me to see a third party application which gives an advantage this great as fair, so for you to see it that way, it screams bias. Plus let's face it, your comments have hardly been without a hint of bias. There's also the whole "I must call then CFC" thing which pretty much guarantees it.

Except it's not cherry picking, as previously detailed, it's simply prioritising. I'd happily be rid of all third party software, but I consider an application like IWI which allows a select group of people to make trillions of isk in a short space of time a considerable more unfair advantage than people using jabber for example. You seem to consider them equal which is fine. Ridiculous, but fine.

No, we're talking about a different piece of third party software that has a similar - and in fact considerably more pronounced - effect of distorting the economic balance of players within the game.

That's not even remotely what I said, but feel free to keep smacking that strawman if it makes you feel better.

the same old stuff

yet again the same stuff

]And they shouldn't be. You certainly shouldn't have to write software to remain competitive, which is what you are suggesting.

I know right? Which is why when you asked me that exact question I said yes. Once again, you're inability to read has nothing to do with me.

Isaac "I can't be bothered to read opposibng arguments yet still have the nerve to claim they are wrong" Armer, everyone.

Sandboxes still have their boundaries. At the end of the day if it were fully open then there should be no rules. What people can do they should be able to, so bots should be fully allowed if your want a sandbox with no boundaries.

But I'm not cherry picking, I'm prioritising. Like I said, I'd be happy to see all third party software banned, but some I give more effort in fighting than others based on the impact they have. If anything you are the one with the hypocritical stance, since you're happy to have bots banned, but not happy to have IWI banned. Why is that? They are both third party software and both undeniably give an advantage.

even more stuff

Whatever way you swing it they are all third party applications designed to facilitate increased income. Stop being such a hypocrite.

You support some third party programs but not others, hypocrite.

If you're going to completely ignore everything I say and keep stating the same BS, then I will too.

snip

I do answer direct questions, you simply ignore the answer. Now stop being a hypocrite.

Except the people banned were bankers, and as Nosy has gone into before, the're no real chance of having that number of people banned for RMT without it being systemwide RMT. If 12 SMA directors were caught RMTing, I'd find it hard to believe SMA weren't inherently an RMT alliance.

At the end of the day this is now even more evidence that there's RMT within IWI, and drops it down to zero evidence that they aren't as their whole story was "well they got unbanned so they weren't". What exactly is it you require before you believe there's RMT there? And are you still trying to hold up this whole "I'm neutral, honest" thing?

No, it's an undeniable fact that they gain an unfair advantage, and now in addition there's more evidence that they RMT (which you'll note is something else I've said all along).

It's truly unbelievable that you can see this much against them, from reputable sources like Nosy no less, and still try to claim that you're defense of them is completely neutral. Judging by other people's comments elsewhere you might find your side is a pretty lonely place before too long.

No, it's an undeniable fact because having more isk is an advantage and without the IWI site they'd not be able to leverage the level of isk income they currently have. Just because a few vocal people with every reason to be against hat went "NOPE!" doesn't somehow disprove that. If anything most of the arguments you guys made was that it does provide an unfair advantage but other applications do too.

Oh wait, yeah I forgot you didn't actually bother reading any of the previous posts so you pretty much are starting from scratch here. My bad, never mind.

stuff

Let's not start this thing where you just say "stuff" then a completely random troll post again. Just hush up until you think up a valid point.

Except of course that I haven't. I specifically mentioned multiple other applications, I've answered your questions on them and explained exactly why I feel some are bigger problems than others. That's not ignoring them. If you choose to not bother reading that, your incredible failure to make a reasonable counterargument is entirely on you.

Actually I gave in depth descriptions of why I think an application that is only available to a limited subset of players who can build it that allows you to rake in trillions of isk is more of an advantage than a slightly more configurable set of voice comms that are freely available to all. The funny thing is that the fact that you have no good counterarguments and keep spouting "but you don't want to ban teamspeak so IWI is not a problem" actually solidifies my argument. If my arguments were weak you'd have no problem finding actual counters without having to resort to strawman arguments and personal attacks.

And Isaac, shush now. If you are going to try to troll, at least get a little better at it. Unless you start bring up a valid counterpoints (which I highly doubt will happen) I'm pretty much going to skip over your posts since feeding you really is going nowhere.

You know I honestly thought the guy was just some random troll when he came to /r/eve and tried to spin Mittani into some defenseless victim of cyber-bullying. I began to suspect he might actually be a tad "off" when he tried to defend goon's past history of doxxing and trying to get people fired from their real life jobs. After reading this thread I'm convinced he is in fact full on delusional and should probably step away from the computer for a few months to get his head screwed back on straight. His blind fan-boy-ism becomes even more disturbing when you realize the guy he's spending COPIOUS amounts of time white knighting doesn't care at all about SMA.

I dunno, I think at this point you have to be pretty delusional to come to /r/eve and try to spin Mittani into some victim who deserves our sympathy but who knows...maybe he really is just terrible at propaganda. After all good propaganda is supposed to change public opinion, all he seems to do is get people to grrrgoons more.